Conversations with Daaji, August and September 2016, Part 3
New Jersey & New York
Interiorization versus internalization
Q: Daaji, you had asked us to do some thinking on interiorization and internalization. I believe interiorization is in the experiential and internalization is intellectual. Am I on the right track?
Daaji: In internalization something is given to you from outside and then you brood over it. Internalization is consuming for a purpose, to dissect something, intellectualize it, and internalize the knowledge. Internalization can be of so many things. It is a bigger spectrum.
Interiorization is similar, but is of spiritual conditions. It is very specific to spiritual states. Look at it this way: you internalize knowledge or a principle. That way, when you look at our interiorization of the great Master, it is no longer a particular subject matter or matter of an entity. It is a matter of a principle. When you think of the inner Master, it is no longer a person who is the guiding force.
Q: One goes beyond the physical level.
Daaji: Yes. You are not relating to any person then. When your heart suggests something, does it say, “Oh, this is an inspiration from Mr X”? No it doesn’t. It simply draws from the Source, the inner guide. That is why we should simply follow the inner Master.
Q: But if we consult the external Master and obey implicitly, then there is no conflict, correct?
Daaji: But how long will you keep consulting? You see, revered Lalaji had to go, beloved Babuji, dearest Chariji, they all had to go. The whole sequence will go on. Each time there is a change, people are shaken up. They have to reorient, retest the new guy, and see if it is a fit for them! And then comparisons start.
Q: How were you able to achieve all this?
Daaji: I don’t think I have achieved anything.
Q: We have seen you Daaji, right in front of us!
Daaji: There is nothing to achieve! You already have it. Just enjoy life. Be yourself. Don’t push it. The more you try to run after it, the more it will run away from you. Don’t go for it. Be at peace, and if God wants you He will come to you! [Laughter erupts all over the room]
Our job is to stay pure and simple. We don’t have bad intentions, we don’t want to hurt anybody, we are sincere, and we are loving. What more can God want from us? We don’t have to become negative. Stay positive and be grateful.
There was a beautiful silence in the room and everyone was moved by the simplicity with which Daaji laid out what we ought to become.
After a brief pause the conversation continued.
Daaji: Skydivers can learn meditation easily. Let go and you are there!
[Daaji laughs and everyone joins the laughter]
Our situation is like a kite. It is hanging on one thread. Just cut it! But for that you need to be courageous. Don’t ask for it though. If it comes, accept it. If it doesn’t, don’t force it.
Blending experience with energy
In the evenings, Daaji usually spends time with a few abhyasis. Weather and health permitting, an evening walk in the woods, a sitting and a quiet dinner is the order of the evening. One such evening, at the dinner table the conversation veered to some of the senior abhyasis serving the path with energy, vigour and great enthusiasm.
Daaji made some comments: “There are many senior members of the Mission who are not mobile because of health, perhaps transport, even finances, or a companion needed to escort them. They serve the Mission with great passion, but they don’t have the means and courage to come out and work. Young people should take them out. Tell them, ‘Uncle, aunty, come with me and conduct a session there.’ Everywhere there are so many such assets and there is no point in retiring them. When they give a sitting it is of a different flavour.”
Effects of the moon
Daaji was offering a different perspective to the society on festivals, culture and the rituals that people observe. Some of the conversation centred around the article on Lord Ganesha, which was very well received across media channels.
Q: There are days like Ekadashi. Do they have a special significance?
Daaji: Yes! Ekadashi days have a very special significance for health. They were connected with religion for the sole purpose of health and well-being. Had this not been associated with religion, common people would not have followed such dictums.
It is good to moderate the intake of food on these days. It is to counter the impact of the moon on the human body. Our body is about 60-70% water. You can see the impact of the moon on water in the oceans. It is significant. On full moon nights there are tides rising up to 20 feet, maybe even 30 feet.
Similarly, the moon has an impact on the human system also. Especially during the full moon, records show that criminal activity is higher than usual. The term ‘lunatic’ comes from the lunar effect on the human nervous system. Our sages must have observed this.
From the 8th day of the lunar cycle, the effect starts growing and reaches its peak on the 15th day. Midway between these two is the 11th day, Ekadashi. If you moderate your intake on that day, you will neutralize the lunar impact on your system.
Discover the true presence within
Q: Your 60th birthday is a big milestone. We would like to celebrate it Daaji.
Daaji: Yes. Go ahead and meditate.
Q: Yes, but we should have a celebration.
Daaji: What else are you planning to do? Meditate, that’s all. For us prayer is the celebration. What else can we do?
Q: But we should celebrate the Guru’s birthday.
Daaji: Yes. Go inside and find his true presence. Otherwise it is too superficial. Even when we assemble in big numbers the purpose is for us to interiorize his presence. If it is not done, then what is the purpose of a bhandara? If you can go into solitude and try to tune in, you have it.
Q: I think we need to send out some communication about this.
Daaji: If abhyasis have to be reminded, then are they really abhyasis? All this practice of interiorization, tuning in, should become our daily affair and reach its peak on such occasions. Not even daily, it should be done each and every moment. It should be a state of being. Try it! See what happens.
Wisdom in the woods
Daaji’s walks in the woods are usually silent sessions interspersed with brief periods of talk. These walks in the evening usually last 30 to 35 minutes. He is accompanied by three or four abhyasis. These trails are lush with Hickory Maples, White Ash and other trees. On the way up, the pit stop is usually a pond that is reached after crossing a wooden bridge. On a sunny evening, it is quite common to see small turtles soaking in the sun.
In this section we present to you some nuggets of wisdom shared by Daaji during the walks:
Working with awareness
“When we work, we should work with awareness of the work being done and the consequences it will generate. Our intentions precede our thoughts. Many a time abhyasis pull the work from us. We are not even aware of it. What happens to our intentions then? We are caught unawares.
“I once asked this question to our beloved Master: ‘Say someone somewhere is dying. How do you come to know of that and do the work as a Master upon the departed soul?’
He replied, ‘I don’t know. I don’t have to know.’”
There was a brief pause as the group navigated through the trail.
Daaji continued, “Knowing somehow interferes with the work. If you come to the knowledge naturally, then it is okay. However, knowledge is not a pre-requisite.” An abhyasi asked, “So the work is done at a superconscious level then, automatically?”
Daaji responded, “Some other mechanism kicks in. As far as we are concerned, abhyasis get their work done sometimes on their own because of their restlessness, need and interest. But we have to continue to refine our intentions and thoughts. Based on our refinement the other work gets done properly. The more refined you are the more effective you become.”
Each situation is unique
In the group was a loving and dedicated abhyasi who was new to the work. She had several questions about new abhyasis, seekers, experienced abhyasis and the need to adapt to each situation. The walk was also coming to an end.
Daaji patiently heard all the questions and the walk continued. Then he said, “I will tell you a story. There was a father and son. The father was a perfect thief, very skilled in the craft. He was getting old. He was no longer strong. The son said, ‘Why don’t you teach me how to steal?’ The father said, ‘Well since you asked, I will teach you.’
“One night he took his son and they located the most beautiful bungalow and entered in the middle of the night. The father said, ‘Look, here is a precious chest. Open it and get in. Throw me the valuables.’ As soon as the boy jumped in, the father closed the chest and locked it from the outside. He also made a lot of noise and raised a ruckus. Once the father became aware that the whole household is awake he quietly slipped out of the house.
“Now the house was fully awake. The head of the household asked, ‘Open the chest.’ It was dark. The maids went to the chest with a candle. The boy was very smart. The moment they opened the chest, the boy blew out the candle and made the sound of a cat. This tricked the maids, but others saw the boy jump out and run.
“The men of the house ran after the boy and soon the whole village was in pursuit. The boy was a good runner. Along the way he saw a well, so he quickly picked up a boulder and threw it into the well and skirted into the bushes. The villagers heard the noise and thought he had jumped into the well. They waited and looked. Finally, they realized that he must have drowned. In the meanwhile, the boy quietly went to the back and joined the search party!
“When the villagers returned, the boy slipped out and went home. He was fuming at his father, but the father was beaming with pride. He patted the son and said, ‘Now I am sure you will become a perfect thief!’”
Daaji continued: “Every situation will be different. No one can teach you every part.”
Courage on the path
The abhyasis were now settled in the backyard and Daaji continued.
“Let me tell you one more story.
“There was a teacher. For years he trained his disciple and now it was time to say farewell. The disciple was miles away from his village and the journey back home meant walking through the jungle. It was the last evening for him with his Guru, so he stayed there till late in the evening. The time for goodbye came. The disciple commented, ‘It’s so dark.’ The Guru lit up a lantern and sent him on his way. After a few minutes of walking in the dark, the Guru called the disciple back. He took the lantern and put it out, saying, ‘Now you walk.’”
Those huddled around were trying to draw the lesson from the story.
Q: So was the Guru instilling faith?
Daaji: Courage. This path is for courageous people. Faith will come anyway arising out of actions showing results. It is like the situation of a tree and its seeds. Which comes first, the seed or the tree? It becomes a very simple solution when we recall Pujya Babuji’s words: “God was not a fool to create such a big tree in the first place if he could make smaller seeds to start with!”
There is a Gujarati bhajan that says, “Harino marag chhe shurano, nahi kayarnu kam jone” (The path of the Lord is for the courageous, there is no room here for the timid).
Table Tales
At dinnertime, sometimes the conversations at the table last a long time and at times they are short. What is interesting to note here is Daaji’s concern for the kitchen team. He makes sure that they finish their dinner in time and the evening doesn’t stretch too long for them. Many a time, Daaji is the first to finish his dinner.
One evening, someone remarked about another person sitting at the table: “Daaji, her husband goes to church. I know him, and he is a very nice gentleman. He says that he finds solace in the Church.”
Daaji continued eating and there was silence at the table. Then Daaji looked at this abhyasi and said, “You should join him in the church sometimes. You should meditate with him there.”
The sincerity and simplicity with which he shared this beautiful suggestion was something to behold. It was such a simple idea. It just hadn’t occurred to anyone present and it came to Daaji naturally.
He continued, “For you it doesn’t matter where you meditate.”
Abhyasi: That is a beautiful suggestion. It’s a game changer!
Daaji: If you remain oil and water, how will they merge? When you go with him, you are preparing him to honour Sahaj Marg. You are welcoming him. The idea is also not to lure him to Sahaj Marg, but it is good to be part of each other’s joys.
Abhyasi: Just to clarify Daaji, he never forced me to go with him and we have not had any conflicts about this.
Daaji: Yes, that is good. Now imagine the effect if you go willingly.
Saying this, Daaji got up. He went to his room to get a book and read a passage from it. The book was an old copy of Reminiscences of Swami Vivekananda. He came back to the table and read an excerpt from the book. After the reading Daaji commented, “So much to read and so little time.”
With that thought the wonderful evening also came to an end.
